minor works certification

**shoot38** · 21st January 2011, 07:37 PM

do you have to fill in a minor works certificate if you are changing a switch, socket, light etc like for like in kitchens or bathrooms

**JohnC** · 21st January 2011, 09:01 PM

Changing switches and sockets is classed as maintainance work and does not require the completion of a Minor works certificate, However you should still carry out at the very least an earth loop impedance test and RCD test to ensure the RCD operates correctly and that there is an adaquate earth at accesory

**dialect** · 11th July 2011, 11:27 PM

I always issue minor works, even if not in a bathroom/kitchen.
It shows what you have (and haven't) done. I write on if I haven't tested IRs for example. Or if the main bonding is not satisfactory, I write that too.
Don't actually know why I bother, doing a pir last week, British Gases subby had fitted a boiler in december last year, no RCD protection. Another "electrician" had put in a new DB, 2 circuits, one for new build conservatory, one for outside lamppost, wired in 3 core 1.0mm flex, not SWA/ conduit, on a minor works, and not a registered competent person. This one hadnt checked the bonding, as British Gas flagged it 3 months later and carried out the work, but then made a shit job of the rest of it.
EDIT
It makes it easier to do invoices if you issue certs too, just write on As DEIC whatever or MWdidthis

**johno123** · 19th July 2011, 09:40 PM

Aint that always the case, loads of sparks don’t issue certs, get PP approval, check bonding etc. Cant tell you how many times I have come across this exact scenario.

As for MWCetrs, as always issue them, even when I don’t need to for example when doing maintenance work. It gives me a chance to record deviations from regs etc, and also often gets me brownie points from the clients.

**1767sb** · 3rd October 2011, 08:45 PM

I believe in the EAW regs it states that once any work, maintenance or otherwise you need to prove that the work you have done is safe and comply's with the regs etc. One way of doing this is by issuing the minor works certificate, it is not mandatory to issue a mw cert, but is by far the easiest way of demonstrating compliance.

I know of sparkies that don't issue MW's certs as they are involved in maintenance contracts as I am, but I have asked and never been shown where this practice is preached. It is sound practice to issue MW's certs as a matter of course, (even for changing a switch) as I can tell you that this practice has unearthed a lot of major problems within installations I've been looking after for the last 8 years.

**Anthony Smith** · 10th April 2012, 07:51 PM

Regulation 633.1 and 633.2 refer to all alterations and additions being supported by the appropriate certification. This can be in the form of either minor works certificates or Electrical installation Certificates. At the beginning of GN3 it refers to all alterations again being certified as to ascertain that existing safety measures have not been affected by the works carried out.

So yes unfortunately all switches, sockets etc. that are replaced must be accompanied by a minor works certificate, if anything it is proof that person carrying out the task guarantees their work. If they are unwilling to comply with BS7671 and GN3 by providing you with such assurances then you must ask yourself why?

They do not need to be a member of any organization to issue out certificates they can be photocopied from the back of the book, even if the job was for pound notes by someone down the pub or for free by a mate. It’s not a tax document it is a certificate of compliance and good workmanship.

I have seen plenty of sockets where the cpc's and neutrals are the wrong way round, and with no RCD on the board the job wouldn’t trip for love nor money

**Anthony Smith** · 10th April 2012, 07:57 PM

Although BS7671 is not a statutory document, failure to comply with what is regarded as the minimum level of electrical safety within the UK mean non compliance with both the EAW regs and the Health and safety at work act. You are right that they require proof of safe work, the only way of complying with this is to issue out a minor works certifcate. Not that im teaching you to suck eges but the minor works certificate can be anything you want as long as it contain no less information than the one found in appendix 6 of the regs. Sparkies dont like it but it is essential

Originally Posted by 1767sb

I believe in the EAW regs it states that once any work, maintenance or otherwise you need to prove that the work you have done is safe and comply's with the regs etc. One way of doing this is by issuing the minor works certificate, it is not mandatory to issue a mw cert, but is by far the easiest way of demonstrating compliance.

I know of sparkies that don't issue MW's certs as they are involved in maintenance contracts as I am, but I have asked and never been shown where this practice is preached. It is sound practice to issue MW's certs as a matter of course, (even for changing a switch) as I can tell you that this practice has unearthed a lot of major problems within installations I've been looking after for the last 8 years.

**spinlondon** · 12th April 2012, 12:02 AM

Anthony Replacement of an accessory is neither an addition or alteration.
As such the issuing of a certificate is not a requirement of BS7671.
Have a read of the notes on the back of the model form.

**Anthony Smith** · 12th April 2012, 06:37 AM

When removing a socket or a switch are you not disturbing the fabric of the building? Are you not by removing the accessory by definition altering the installation?Now when the notes highlight that "that this certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as accessories or lumiaires" and appropriate inspection and testing should always be carried out irrespective of the extent of works undertaken. (page 394)Where do installers record their test results? Do they record it on a one page minor works certificate or do they record the results on another type of document that contains no less information that that found on the model forms in BS7671 as I highlighted earlier?Or are you advising readers that when carrying out minor works ( and to be honest, replacing a socket is as minor as you can get) that they do not need to record their test results?What would be the best course of action in yor opinion to comply with the requirements of BS7671 and notes on page 394?

Replace a pendant with some B&Q track lighting monstrosity that covers half the ceiling, alteration?

Removal of a single socket outlet and change with one of thoses double or triple socket converter thingies. Alterations?

**spinlondon** · 12th April 2012, 06:17 PM

As you have read, the notes use the term 'may', as in you may use the Certificate, or you may decide not to.
As for whether replacing an accessory or fitting, is an addition or alteration, I would point you again in the direction of the notes.
Specifically the first two sentances.
Now it clearly states that the MWEIC "is intended to be used for additions and alterations".
If the replacement of an accessory or luminaires were an alteration or addition, there would be no need to then have the third sentance stating:
"This Certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires".
There is no requirement to record the results of any appropriate inspection and testing, unless a Certificate is being issued.